EDIT This post hasn't had activity since December. I added a new reply to it and would love to hear your guys thoughts since the new patch. Thanks!

I am bored at work and was looking at some restro specs for 80. Keep in mind that I would want to have the best spec for healing 5 mans and some raids. Here is what I have so far -

http://www.wow-tools.org/talent-calcula ... 1122311251

That spec is incomplete, only requires level 76. Those last four points could go in a variety of places and I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Which do you think is better - 3/3 Elemental Weapons or 3/3 Ancestral Awakening. I haven't done any real testing so I offer no real advice, however, I would assume that Elemental Weapons would be more beneifical

What do you think about Ancestral Healing? I know druid tanks love the extra armor, but I am not sure how other tanks feel about it. If it not game changing I would rather spend my points somewhere else.

I also did not get any of the Healing Wave talents. I rarely ever use the spell...if ever...so I decided to go somewhere else with the points.

I would love some thoughts

Thanks

Hey,

I can't access talent calculators at work, so I can't see what you've come up with so far.

However some quick points from my opinion :

- Early Enh talents are great, 10% int, improved shields and the crit. I'm not too fusses about the elemental weapons.

- Armour buff is nice, given that we should be doing pretty good on crit these days, it's up all the time and it can certainly help bolster a nervous tank in 5 man heroics.

- Ancestral awakening isn't coming out well from the raid math monkeys, only about 2-3% of healing. But I personally love it, and for 5 man's it's great because there's no other healers. Criting for 10k, and seeing the hunter/mage/lock getting a ~2k heal without you having to divert attention from the tank is often great.

- Healing Way I've dropped and not looked back. Whilst I'm often dropping quite a few HW's in a row on the tanks, it's often the first one that is crucial, and that's the one that doesn't get any bonus from HW's. The subsequent ones are topping him off. Even without it, the bonus healing from Tidalwaves (+20% on the next two HW's) means I'm getting 10-12k crits (with about 35-40% crit, that's often). Another 18% on top of that is more often than not going to just be overheal, especially after 3 previous heals to stack up Healing way. In my opinion - a waste of points these days.

If you check the armoury at my spec, then you'll see I also don't have any of the threat reduction talents, or the pushback protection. Neither of these are particularly needed. Tanks are generating obscene quantities of threat, and have more 'tricks' up their sleeves for if they do lose aggro. Plus you have windshock which is awesome (especially if used pre-emptively).

The new pushback mechanics means nothing is getting pushed back more than 1 second. I may find that too much eventually, but for now (i.e. with Naxx 10 man completed twice, and most heroics lots of times) I haven't missed it.

This has allowed me to indulge in all the resto and enh goodies I wanted, including insta-ghostwolf.

RE: Ancestral Healing...

I'm not sure if you read tanking sites, but the term 'Effective Health' has been brewed up at some point (by Ven at tankingtips ?). Anyway, the point of it is that health, or 'how many hits can I take till I'm dead', is a function of more than just Stam and should include other stuff, like armor (well, for physical dmg, anyway).

... and yes, druids get more return for item armor (although I dont know that the bear form multiplier/thick hide talent would affect this), but all tanks should appreciate the value of armor, imo.

I personally like the idea behind this and the counterpart priest talent, but 'is it a good return for talent points'? Ha!, no idea

Hmmm, bit of a ramble there, sorry (I too am bored at work).

My actual cookie cutter build is over at http://www.shieldsup.ch/2008/11/24/resto-talent-discussion-pre-naxx/ and even up to date with my latest experiences out of 5 mans, naxx 10 and 25.

Elemental Weapons I have still talented right now, but the more I look at it the weaker it gets.

Ancestral Awakening was really really weak when I tried it out in sunwell raiding, but now as I heal many heroics, I so want to respecc and see the numbers now. LHW glyphed is just insane for heroics. Makes me feel all pink and paladin.

Ancestral Healing is excellent. Especially when you learn to do heroics and start picking up crit heavy gear. If you do single target healing: go all out crit, have an excellent mana regen and fantastic Ancestral Healing uptime.

As for healing focus I so wanted to leave it out BUT: No pally healer in our raid so no aura of concentration and my gear is still not fantastic. In heroics it still helps, you'll have loose mobs beating on you (Strath e.g.) and this 1 second pushback does matter. When I'm back to full-time raiding and outgear the heroics I might leave it out.

I posted this on EJ. It only spends 54 points, with suggestions for the remaining 7. At this point, I don't think there is any clear 'best spec'. Heroics, 10-mans and 25-mans require the shamans to fill different roles, hence a need for different talents.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hZ0xxhZxcezVxoxkrhRt
Baseline Resto Shaman build with Riptide:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Feel free to swap out the 3/3 Improved Water Shield for one of:
- 3/3 Healing Focus
- 3/3 Healing Grace
- 3/3 Healing Way

With 7 talent points left, either choose more from above, or from these options:
- 3/3 Enhancing Totems
- 3/3 Elemental Weapons
- 3/3 Ancestral Awakening
- 1/1 Shamanistic Focus
- 2/2 Guardian Totems

Some of the choices can be based on the buffs brought by other raid members. For example, if an enhancement shaman is bringing Enhancing Totems, you'll probably be dropping Stoneskin, so min/max with Guardian Totems.

Personaly I would use this build, I took Vvodka's build and made a few changes to it:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hZ0xxIoZVcezVxoxkrIRt

I'm gonna go resto when I reach 80 after a long run as being Enh (1-79 ;p) so I'm not an expert or anything but I have been doing some reading.

Hope this helps,
Splinta

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hZ0xghZxfezVxoxkrIRt

0/15/56

Enhancement

Ancestral Knowledge, Thundering Strikes and Improved Shields are pretty standard.

+Ghost Wolf - I play on a PvP server.. sometimes you need to flee. Once I am solid into 25 man raiding and instancing on my terms, I'll move these points somewhere, likely.

Restoration

+Improved Reincarnation - Doing it entirely for the shorter cooldown. We are learning content and my RL likes having more Anhks to count on.

+Ancestral Healing - I have high crit and generally bounce chains off the tanks.. if I am not seeing good uptime, I would considering moving these points.

+Ancestral Awakening - I am doubtful how much benefit I will get from this.. but watching WWS to see.

-Healing Way - I just wouldn't really benefit from this, although if my Healing Wave spam increased, I would consider moving points here.

-Healing Grace - Threat has not been an issue.. but if I move 3 points this is in the running to get them.

-Healing Focus - I can remember the old push back model *with* this talent and still being unable to cast (like ZA). With 1 second max delay, and other ways to address this.. I am using the points elsewhere.

Looking back.. I think I arrived at Smeester's build.. wishing the Armory was up so I could check.

Also nods to Vvodka. As we settle into a relatively normal 25 man Raid, I am sure I will shift underforming points into Totems and Weapons buffs. In 25s, a small buff raid wide starts to add up. *nods*

All and all, I am pretty happy.

Yup - exactly the same



Also - you pop up with more mana too. Equally crucial for those learning fights. No point having you back on your feet with pot and mana tide on cooldown and barely any mana. 40% of my mana pool = 8000 mana (about a 20k pool raid buffed) rather than 4000 untalented. Quite a big difference. The extra health helps too - less likely to die from a stray aoe before you heal yourself.

All I do is instance and raid, I picked the my spec based on increasing my healing, mana, over all raid effectiveness as much as possible.

http://www.wow-tools.org/talent-calcula ... 1122331251

I put the standard ones in enhancement. I picked 2/3 imp water shield bc 66% is still sufficient enough to to proc mana and I end up refreshing it less, 2/3 pushback bc I have encountered enough fights that require healing through AOE to be successful (Hex Lord for one). Didn't feel the need to max it but it made more raid sense then instant GW (can't use it in the majority of raids anyway).

I love ancestral healing and from what I hear, the tanks love it too. With earthliving, riptide ticking, Earth Shield, CH, HW.... you will probably always have the 25% armor increase on the tank and they love it.

I felt like there was no reason to reduce mana of totems. Since most of them last 5 min now... there usually isn't too much of a reason to constantly put them down. I agree with Smeester with the Healing Way - it's a waste. Even taking overhealing out of the picture, its not realistic to think that you are going to keep it stacked the whole time.

Just my 2 cents.

This 0/13/51 build is what I'd consider a baseline for any resto shaman. It leaves 7 points free for whatever you like. That being said...

Talents I'd Avoid:

• Earth's Grasp - Very gimmicky, probably only useful for soloing or PvP
• Anticipation - If you find yourself needing to dodge in a group setting, get a new tank
• Totemic Focus - This was a poor investment of talent points in TBC, and 5 minute totems only made it worse
• Focused Mind - See Earth's Grasp
• Nature's Guardian - I've never been a big fan of this talent even though some people swear by it. Just seems too situational for 5 points.

Talents I Like:

• Improved Reincarnation - The shorter ankh cooldown alone is worth it
• Healing Focus - I haven't been running with this talent in its current state but liked the old version. After doing some quick and dirty math I think I'll try and fit it back in.
• Ancestral Awakening - Some people don't care for it because it works out to fairly small percentage of our overall healing. I'd say it's an occasional free heal that might end up being the difference between life and death for a group mate.
• Enhancing Totems - Good for when you don't have an elemental or enhance shaman around to drop these

Talents I'm Undecided About:

• Guardian Totems - At first glance I want to say I like this one since I do usually have at least one enhance shaman in my raid. After doing the math, this would bump the max rank Stoneskin Totem's armor up from 1150 to 1380, a change of 230 armor. I'll have to talk to a tank and see how droolworthy that is.
• Elemental Weapons - I've been running with it so far, but I'd like to see if I could get by without it once I get more SP gear.
• Shamanistic Focus - Granted we don't get called on to shock very often, but it seems like a pretty good deal for just one point.
• Healing Grace - I always used to run with this, mostly thanks to Morogrim Tidewalker and his merry band of murlocs, but the threat reduction now days with tanks getting AoE tanking buffs probably isn't really needed. I'll keep an open mind about this one as I do more heroics.
• Healing Way - Back before Blizzard killed downranking, I could cast three Rank 1 HWs (1.0 sec cast time ) on a tank to get a full stack of Healing Wave going for less than 200 mana, and I could keep it refreshed with the occasional Rank 6 or 8 (or 12 if the tank took a really big spike) HW. Even with all the talent buffs for HW, I don't think we'll be chain casting it enough to get a full stack up much less keep one up. Again I'll keep an open mind about it as I do more heroics.

All that being said, I'm thinking my spec is going to end up at 0/13/58. Apologies if I'm plagiarizing someone, mmo-champion and wowhead are blocked at my office .

Im going to assume that the people saying Healing Way is useless are mainly raid healing? In 10m naxx I find myself main healing more in boss fights than anything as there isnt alot of solid raid dmg running rampant that a Druid can't HoT through. ALso I dont spam chain heal all day long in heroics, so maybe im playing my shaman wrong, but id rather pop a 10-15k heal as opposed to a 7-10k, for the same amt of mana. I've played with the idea of taking Ancestral Healing, but haven't really decided on it yet. Maybe when more of my guild's healers get geared I might get pushed back into raid healing, and then things may change. And after looking at my recount tonight, my Ancestral Awakening WAS only about 3.3% of my healing. which was ~300k. so idk if its worth the change.

0/16/55 Resto Shaman

Yes, of course we'd all rather that in it's literal meaning.

But it isn't the same amount of mana is it! To get that 10-15k for the same amount of mana, you need to spend ~2k mana on two previous casts within the last 15 seconds to stack it up. And then you need to ensure you cast another HW every 15 seconds to maintain that 3 stack, whether the tank needs the heal or not, at 1000+ mana a go.

How often is that 10-15k just simply 3-8k more overheal, trying to maintain the stack, above the 7-10k cast when the tank needs it?

From my experience of heroics ( and it'll only get more so as gear improves) I can often go long minutes keeping the tank up with earthshield and riptide. A lot of the boss fights in heroics involve aoe damage that will warrent the use of chain heal on the tank to spread around the group, sometimes for long periods. Other times I need to conserve mana until the 30% frenzy of the boss, so I keep the tank topped up with earthshield and riptides and LHW's until the very end. Trying to maintain a 3 stack of HW throughout the boss fight is just unfeasible.

Certainly, at times, it'll have it's moment of glory. It might even be nice for a fight like patchwork.

It's entirely a personal decision, but to me the economics just doesn't work out unless I can guarentee I'll be doing nothing but spamming a tank that needs that amount of healing. And such opportunities are too far and few between.

Very interesting stuff here. Alot of great info...

Seems like we are all using the same baseline restro talents minus 6 or 7 points.

I think you just need to figure out what you will be doing in the game (BGs, raids, heroics, Arenas) to decide where to spend those last points.

Thanks for all of the replys, got alot of great info and opinions

Check out the numbers in this post. Daidalos is good with the numbers, so I'll assume they are accurate for now. While his post didn't specify, he is baking in the average mana return from IWS into RT, HW and LHW.
http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t37674-rest ... post991508

From those numbers, I can conclude that:
- Earth Shield is our most efficient spell. We should have this on the tank at all times. (28.31 HPM)
- Riptide is our second most efficient spell. Use it often. It procs Tidal Waves as a bonus. (12.93 HPM)
- LHW with Earthshield glyph is very close to Riptide. This can be our tank spam spell (12.83 HPM)
- HW (with 3 stack HW & TW, not shown) comes a little behind LHW (12.46 HPM)
- HW (with 3 stack HW & TW, not shown) heals 7933 HPS, our biggest heal per second by far
- CH hitting four targets comes in behind our other healing spells (11.76 HPM)

Is Chain Heal obsolete? No. It is still useful for healing multiple targets quickly. But gone are the days of just spamming CH on the tank and hoping it bounces. Our other spells have been improved a lot.

I haven't done a 25-man yet. But my healing in 5's and 10's is very diverse. Typically Recount shows my top five healing spells as some mix of ES, LHW, RT, HW and CH, each between 10% and 25%. Lately CH is coming in at the bottom of that list. I'm not sure if this is a short term fad, or the future for shamans. I'm enjoying healing like this.

If you adopt this more diverse healing style, then talents like AA, Healing Way, IWS and Tidal Waves all increase in importance.

If you are not using HW enough on it's on to keep HWay stacked, then it is rather pointless to force HW just to keep it stacked. If the tank isn't needing 10K heals, then just use LHW. When you get to a fight, or a phase of a fight, where HW needs to be used, it will be used enough to stack it quickly and keep it stacked.

Think of Healing Way as a bonus for casting HW frequently, not as a buff that you have to maintain even when you are not casting HW.

The strength of healing way has always been that it was incredibly easy to keep up, with the chance to proc armor bonus for tanks. And because downranked HW was a very viable single target healing spell.

With downranking gone and LHW +glyph as excellent single target heal I don't really see a place left for healing way. Even if you consider it a bonus when acidentally casting HW 2-3 times in a row it is weak. If a fight really needs healing wave you might be stopcasting a lot anyway.

And if you skill for healing way you might lose other excellent talents like AA for LHW heavy fights or enhancing totems for overall raid utility.

I still think healing way will be changed somewhen in the future.

That is a very eye opening chart.. thanks for the link.

This. If they added LHW into this talent, I would definitely give it another look.

This is a really good post with a bunch of good ideas. I had posted my raid spec out on Hoof n Healz (http://hoofnhealz.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/wotlk-level-80-resto-shaman-raid-build/) and got some good feedback also. The elitistjerks post had some very intereting numbers that I will take into account as I mess around and change my build up even more.

Here is something that I have been wonder, Tidal Force...the effect is nice, but do we absolutely need the talent for raids...discuss.

jager

I'm rocking http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hZhx0IZxceuVxoxkrIRt right now and having a great time switching between raid healing and heroic healing.

Elemental weapons is nice, especially if you are stacking haste to help you get your + heal a bit higher. Enhancing totems for utility not only does it buff Flametongue totem for us but it also pumps up Strength of Earth which physical dps loves. I didn't bother with Healing way because with Glyph of Lesser Healing Wave, and Earth Shield always up on the tank, I find I don't use healing wave as much, if ever honestly. Focused mind seems too pvp centric to me, and I don't see much use out of it in pve yet, that may change, but with stuns and silences averaging 5 seconds or so, there is really no noticeable difference between having it and not. Healing Grace I opted out of because with the changes to tanking, I have yet to even come close to ganking aggro and those points could be used else where. Totemic focus became moot when they added 3 minutes to totem life. Ancestral Awakening is accounting for roughly 5% healing in a 10 man raid right now and with me using Riptide and Lesser Healing Wave so much more, it's become quite useful. As for Tidal force, I would never leave home without it. With improved water shields, and That talent, It becomes another mana return.

I think I have a long winded post about talents up on my blog over at http://wayofthetotem.blogspot.com/ if you want to check it out

That's my two cents.