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 Post subject: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:15 am 
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Okay, so I was talking shop with some other players to try to get a better understanding. Sometimes the wording can be confusing. So when Ghostcrawler said Healers were underestimating the actual proc ability, he was right. Because when I realized what the magnitude was, I was like... wow. That proc is insane.

So a few things here that I commented about from Lodur's post that I want to share.

First of all, I have it in good faith that there is no internal cool down.

Second, the healer gains the Kings buff. Which means for 15 seconds, every heal that lands shields a player. Every bounce from Chain Heal will shield the player it hits. Every Prayer of Healing will heal and shield that entire group. Every Renew tick adds shields per tick. It literally is 15% of EVERY heal that lands. Prayer of Mending, when it connects, is 15% every time. A Glyphed Holy Light will add shields to everyone it touches.

15% of every heal, HoT or NoT, will be added as a shield (for the time the proc is up).

Did I mention there’s no cooldown on that proc?

See I misinterpreted it as thinking that when the blessing was up, you'd have a chance to shield a player. Nope, not the case.

EDIT: Keep discussions to distribution in this thread. Use the current thread here for questions or discussion about the proc.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:29 am 
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Do the shields stack? If a HoT ticks twice for 2K, will it produce a shield corresponding to both ticks or will the latter overwrite the former?

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:04 am 
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The proc makes me drool as a Disc Priest, especially if the bubbles it creates stack with each other.

The stats are good, but the proc is truly legendary.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:08 am 
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Zusterke wrote:
Do the shields stack? If a HoT ticks twice for 2K, will it produce a shield corresponding to both ticks or will the latter overwrite the former?


That I'm not sure about. We'll have to wait and see.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:46 am 
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Does it proc a shield when you bandage someone, or potion/healthstone yourself? :lol:

Ah, never mind. I just reread the proc and saw that it specifically states spells. However, that does make me wonder about how it reacts with Beacon of Light and Gift of the Naaru.

Also, the proc makes [Lay on Hands] ridiculously powerful, especially if fully glyphed and talented. "Here, have a ~20k+ heal with a ~20k+ damage shield that restores 3900 mana to both of us while also increasing your armor by 50% for 15 seconds, all on an 11 minute cooldown!" ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:40 am 
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I am the one making the weapon in my guild. I wonder if it procs off of the judgement of light?

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:54 am 
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Tooltip says: "...to shield the target absorbing damage equal to 15% of the amount healed"

It means 15% of any effective heal... not so easy to take advantage of a proc plus effective heals. In my opinion Crystalspire mechanic is much better, since its effect always triggers when target actually need extra-healing.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:06 pm 
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khassad wrote:
Tooltip says: "...to shield the target absorbing damage equal to 15% of the amount healed"

It means 15% of any effective heal... not so easy to take advantage of a proc plus effective heals. In my opinion Crystalspire mechanic is much better, since its effect always triggers when target actually need extra-healing.


The tooltip says nothing about effective heal, and it very well could take overheal into account. From the
Paladin Schmaladin blog...

For what it's worth, when I saw it in action a while ago it was proccing 100% of the time and the splash heal from Glyph of Holy Light and Beacon activated the BoAK shields, too. And yes, it took overhealing into account and stacked.

Just fwiw.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:28 am 
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Stay Tuned:

Ghostcrawler wrote:
Since everyone has now seen the tooltip but not the proc in action, we can understand how the potential for guild drama exists in deciding who gets the righteous hammer.

We'll go ahead and explain exactly how it works. Just give us a couple of days to get some text together.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:59 pm 
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theoretical question:

if you had the Val'Anyr, and were playing offspec shadowpriest with VE up, would your VE heals create an essentially constant state of shield procs?

think about it... DPS, Replenishment, Healing, and Shields, all in a constant stream

or am I completely off-track?

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:29 am 
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It would be the same with a paladin judging light.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 10:57 am 
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Ghostcrawler wrote:
We have received many questions about how the proc works on Val’anyr, the Hammer of the Ancient Kings. While we originally intended for this effect to be a mystery, we realize that guilds now know what the tooltip on the proc says without necessarily knowing the details on how it works. This leads to situations where a healer may not know if assembling the hammer is worth it for them (hint: it is), and perhaps even worse, a misinformed leader may not think you deserve the hammer (hint: you do).

Players also wonder if the proc makes the item deserving of its legendary status given that the stat allocation is normal for items of its item level (Hint: it does).

The effect reads “Your healing spells have a chance to cause Blessing of Ancient Kings for 15 seconds allowing your heals to shield the target absorbing damage equal to 15% of the amount healed.”

The way this works is that when the proc happens (which is a 10% chance whenever a hot or direct spell heals, with a 45 sec internal cooldown) you gain a buff (the Blessing) on yourself. Now all of your heals for the next 15 sec cause an 8 sec damage shield. The shield stacks with itself. It includes healing done by subsequent ticks of existing hots on the target. Note that the spell has to actually heal, so hots ticking on a fully-healed target cannot cause the proc. However the shield is based on the size of the heal itself, not the amount healed – i.e. 100% overhealing will not proc the Blessing on the healer, but the shield itself includes overhealing once the Blessing is active. The shield can grow to a maximum size of 20,000 damage absorbed.

Example 1: A paladin casts Holy Light for 10K on the tank, which partially heals her. The Blessing procs, so the paladin’s Holy Light immediately causes a shield on the tank which will now absorb 1500 damage. The tank dodges the next two hits, so no damage is absorbed. The paladin then casts another heal for 8K, but only heals the tank for 600 before she is at full health. The shield is now at 2700 damage absorbed (1500 + 1200) for 8 sec.

Example 2: A druid casts Rejuv on the tank, healing her. The Blessing procs on the druid on the second tick. A shield is applied to the tank which absorbs 15% of the amount healed by that tick and each remaining tick of the Rejuv. If the druid also gets Lifebloom and Regrowth on the tank while the Blessing is up, then those ticks also contribute to the shield. If the shield goes down because the 8 sec duration expires or it absorbs that much damage, it can go up again as long as the Blessing lasts, which is 15 sec.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:15 am 
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Ghostcrawler wrote:
To answer some questions:

1) If you are lucky enough to have two hammers in your group, then they will both contribute to the same bubble.

2) It should work as you would expect with PW:Shield and similar effects. Specifically, the damage should work through one shield and then the other. I don't know off the top of my head which one is used first. Sometimes we have edge cases with multiple absorbs like this that we will need to solve as they arise. (To be clear, PW:Shield will not proc the blessing or the bubble though, because it does not heal.)

3) If you have the blessing (i.e. you caused healing and the proc occured) then overhealing will count towards the bubble. Hots that tick on a target will still contribute to the bubble. You can also choose to switch to a direct heal if you don't have enough GCDs available to get all of your hots up before the blessing fades. The confusing part here is that hots that don't heal won't cause the blessing (we didn't want you fishing for the bubble before a pull by constantly healing the tank, though I suppose you could if your tank was injured). But once the blessing is active, then all of your healing spells will contribute to the bubble even if they do no actual healing.

We'll leave it to you guys to theorycraft out if you think the hammer is marginally better for one class than another. Some players were speculating before this announcement that the bubble only applied to one spell, which would definitely favor Holy Light. We implemented it the way we did to make sure the other healing classes could still get juicy bubbles while the blessing was active (which is 15 sec).

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:35 am 
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In essence:

Heals that are not 100% overheal, even if the effective heal is only 1% of the total heal, can proc the Blessing on yourself. (10% chance, 45 sec internal CD)

Once the Blessing is on you, ALL heals you produce within the next 15 seconds, whether they are 100% overheal or not, will add an 8 second shield equal to 15% of the amount healed... including overhealing.

Druid example:

Regrowth, LB, Rejuv are up on a target. The 2nd tick of the Rejuv procs the Blessing on me. Now, all of my HoTs that are still ticking are adding (for each tick), 15% of the amount healed... inclusively, building upon each other.

Every tick of Rejuv, Regrowth, LB (including the 'Bloom-Gasm), and any Swiftmend or Nourish I can pump out, will add to the Shield on the target for those next 15 seconds.

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Last edited by Ionas on Mon May 04, 2009 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:09 pm 
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15 seconds. It's a 15 second buff that procs an 8 second shield. :)

Other than that...yep!

Can't wait ^_^

-Z

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:55 am 
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Ionas wrote:
Ghostcrawler wrote:
3) [...] (we didn't want you fishing for the bubble before a pull by constantly healing the tank, though I suppose you could if your tank was injured). But once the blessing is active, then all of your healing spells will contribute to the bubble even if they do no actual healing.


If one would like to fish for the bubble before a bosspull, couldn't one just have a warlock spam life tap, while the mace-wielder heals him, finally getting the proc and then unloading a few huge heals on the tank(s) generating the shield?

Correct me if Im wrong. I'm not quite sure if I understood exactly on who the mace-wielder could generate the shield on. Maybe it only works on the target on which the mace-wielder got the mace-buff on. But from my understanding on the text it doesn't imply that (but english isn't my native language, I could understand the text wrong).

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Sure, you could probably fish for a bubble with a Warlock using [Life Tap] and then load up the tank with as much damage shielding as you can, but I honestly don't think that would be particularly helpful in most situations. Remember that the actual damage shields only last for 8 seconds, and, as I understand it, automatically fade when the blessing fades 15 seconds after the proc. This means that you'd have to proc the blessing, start loading a target up with shields, and pull within 8 seconds of the first shield going up, all while hoping that the boss actually does enough damage to eat through those shields so they aren't wasted. Since, as far as I'm aware, bosses don't usually tend to open up with their tank/raid-splatting abilities, it seems like a lot of the shielding would be wasted, not to mention that the blessing proc would now be on cooldown.

If you really want to min-max the proc, it seems like it would be a better idea to try to figure out the timing of the most horrific abilities of each boss, and try to time the proc and cooldown to mitigate as much damage as possible. This might entail getting it to proc before the pull, sure, but it could also potentially mean waiting a little while after the pull before starting to heal—thereby preventing the blessing from proccing before you want it to.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:09 am 
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Lancelet wrote:
From the
Paladin Schmaladin blog...


I read that post when it was linked on WowInsider, and I've never read so much bullshit in my life.
Quote:
Let's get something out of the way: This is first and foremost a Paladin mace. Period.
Eff. That. It can work wonderfully for any and all healer classes. Nobody automatically gets the mace because they play a particular class. It doesn't favor anyone nearly that much. The proc in the hands of a ____ is going to be just as awesome of that of a _____, _____ or _____. The biggest difference is mainly whether the player in question is going to wind up shielding lots of targets for a few thousand or one target for quite a bit of damage.

I was one of three candidates for our first mace and I passed to our Resto Shaman. All three of us have great gear and 100% attendance. I felt at the time, without knowing the details that Ionas quoted above, that it would be more useful in the hands of a Shaman. Knowing all of that now, I'd say it's a toss-up.

Are the stats on the mace itself allocated sub-optimally for classes besides Paladins? Maybe. Do the rest of us care? Not a bit. It's the proc that makes this weapon so amazing. There's no wasted stats on the mace, just one or two missing that might make it better for a particular class.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:49 am 
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The itemization screams Pally. I wonder if Beacon counts? Also it's pro for any healer period.

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 Post subject: Re: Val'Anyr's Procs Explained
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:41 am 
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Ithato wrote:
Lancelet wrote:
From the
Paladin Schmaladin blog...


I read that post when it was linked on WowInsider, and I've never read so much bullshit in my life.
Quote:
Let's get something out of the way: This is first and foremost a Paladin mace. Period.
Eff. That. It can work wonderfully for any and all healer classes. Nobody automatically gets the mace because they play a particular class. It doesn't favor anyone nearly that much. The proc in the hands of a ____ is going to be just as awesome of that of a _____, _____ or _____. The biggest difference is mainly whether the player in question is going to wind up shielding lots of targets for a few thousand or one target for quite a bit of damage.


I completely agree. I'm very disappointed in the shit-storm that Ferarro started with her blog.

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