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Stat itemization

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Has anyone contemplated/converted to running with extra mastery?

I have been following the discussion over at EJ and it's rather interesting. It appears that mastery is doing quite well when equipped in large amounts and with a very specific role as tank healer, i.e. it doesn't appear to work well with 10-man groups where versatility is required.

I don't know if I could handle watching my cast bar sluggishly plod along but it looks like, at least for the elite among holy paladins, mastery is working out rather well. I understand that Zeroua and Diamondtear run in different circles and with different players that play at a level that I cannot compare to but I'm curious if anyone around here has tried it out.

If so, did you like the feel of it? How do you prioritize your stats? How did you decide what were appropriate levels of spirit/haste/mastery?
Posted Jul 11, 11 · OP
I just swapped mains, so I'm in mostly 353/359 gear with a few pieces above or below. I have a few pieces I swap back and forth depending on whether I care more about Spirit or healing output (Haste, or slightly higher Intellect), but with my gear level I'm pretty much using my regen set for every boss.

When I find such a thing as "enough" Spirit, I'll swap over to valuing Haste higher. I can't imagine going the Mastery route in my 10m, I need the fast heals. Beacon is always a huge part of my output (25-30%) and on some fights Holy Radiance is a significant player for me as well.
Posted Jul 12, 11
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I'll try to summarize from what I've read at EJ and the 21 pages at the official forums:

You're right, the basic idea is to move to being a more efficient, single target healer. And Yes, it seems you have to sacrifice versatility and overall throughput to do so. Aside from the current standard way of itemization (int>haste>spirit), I think the general idea is to devalue spirit and haste and focus more on mastery and crit. The itemization is something like Int > Mastery > Crit > Haste > Spirit. Zaroua seems to be valuing Mastery more than Int.

Some have said the appropriate level of haste is 770ish to get the 13th Holy Radiance tick (with buffs), others have said get enough haste to keep your Holy Light and Divine Light spells close to 2.0s cast times, and still others say get enough that you are comfortable.

Spirit is still something you'll likely want enough that you feel comfortable. If you're moving towards being more efficient, than you'll need less of it. The play style is different and you'll probably want more in the beginning while you adapt.

I don't think anyone has any hard numbers on how much mastery or crit are needed. I think the best idea that has been suggested so far is to keep the two balanced, perhaps favoring mastery a bit more. I couldn't tell you though, as I have no experience with this in 25man FL heroics. I'm also interested to see how this plays out for more casual raiders that are still working through 10man and 25man FL normal modes.
Posted Jul 17, 11
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Canonical wrote:
Some have said the appropriate level of haste is 770ish to get the 13th Holy Radiance tick (with buffs)
770 Haste rating is beyond low for any Holy pally in this content. You should be shooting for the 14th tick of Radiance @ 1859.4 haste rating.

As far as the thread goes... I'm using the following Int>Haste>Spirit>Mastery>Crit (Until I reach 1860 haste rating) Then Int>Spirit>Mastery>Haste>Crit

~LB~
Posted Jul 22, 11
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You're right. I should have clarified in my post that I was specifically talking about the crit/mastery heavy builds that people have been buzzing about.
Posted Jul 22, 11
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I actually have been using this. We're not very far into FL (working on Shannox, actually) but after reading all the buzz I decided to try it out.

Surprisingly enough, it has been working great for me, not only in raid, but in 5 mans as well. I didn't really go crazy with it because I'm still working on some upgrades, but simply doing the reforging and replacing a couple gems has done so much for me. Over the course of our last night of Shannox attempts, my shields absorbed over 2 million points of damage.

Admittedly, it's hard to get used to. My regen is pretty awful, and I'm not nearly as fast as I was. However, with the way my crit has been hitting and the shields doing what they do, I adjusted to the detriments pretty quickly. I'm interested to see how it goes with a few more new gear pieces, and I'll probably tweak it just a touch to give me a little more Spirit.
Posted Jul 22, 11
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Mizauki wrote:
I actually have been using this. We're not very far into FL (working on Shannox, actually) but after reading all the buzz I decided to try it out.

Surprisingly enough, it has been working great for me, not only in raid, but in 5 mans as well. I didn't really go crazy with it because I'm still working on some upgrades, but simply doing the reforging and replacing a couple gems has done so much for me. Over the course of our last night of Shannox attempts, my shields absorbed over 2 million points of damage.

Admittedly, it's hard to get used to. My regen is pretty awful, and I'm not nearly as fast as I was. However, with the way my crit has been hitting and the shields doing what they do, I adjusted to the detriments pretty quickly. I'm interested to see how it goes with a few more new gear pieces, and I'll probably tweak it just a touch to give me a little more Spirit.
Not sure why your cloak has its mastery converted to haste but ok... Also I can't imagine playing 25m Firelands with the 602 haste rating that your running >.< When im currently running 1870...

~LB~
Posted Jul 22, 11
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Lightblood wrote:
Not sure why your cloak has its mastery converted to haste but ok... Also I can't imagine playing 25m Firelands with the 602 haste rating that your running >.< When im currently running 1870...

~LB~

We're actually not in 25m. We're in 10m. ^_^

I didn't leave all the mastery on my cloak because I'm comfortable with a 25% bubble. I'm trying to adjust it as we go, since I have to be a bit more flexible stat wise depending on what we need on a given evening. Honestly, I don't know if the build will work for everything we need, but so far it's not doing bad. I try not to stay locked into anything so that if my RL needs me to adjust things I can. I'm willing to try new things if need be.
Posted Jul 22, 11
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I've heard that stacking mastery is only good in 25mans as you have a lot of healers to back you up with raid heals.

In 10 mans you dont get the luxury of being "purely" a tank healer. So i think haste for 10s is still the way to go
Posted Jul 23, 11
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Consider the generally accepted build: Haste & Spirit. The extra Spirit is needed to support the higher rate of healing throughout a fight, otherwise we'd just go Haste & Crit/Mastery. The Haste is there for faster reaction time and increases Radiance output.

But.

Look at the break points for Radiance. Via EJ, fully raid buffed, the first break is 773.1 and the the second is 1859.4. Around the first break point your DL/HL casts reach 2 seconds. At the second break your casts are 1.85 seconds. The difference is a 7.4% increase in output for non-Radiance spells, and a tiny (15 hundredths of a second) buff to your reaction time.

The past week I've taken my haste down to around 800 rating and increased my Mastery up to 16 points, or ~32%, (average 368 equipped) and saw my output from Illuminated Healing double from near 10% to near 20%. That's about a 5% increase in my overall healing, probably a bit less that what my haste had given me (I wasn't quite to 1860). The change, however, means a lot more mitigated damage. Damage never taken is better than damage healed.

I like the change for a 25 man raid where I can spend nearly all of my healing on a tank. For a 10 man raid this could also be effective but you will generally see lower output because most shielding from raid healing will go to waste.

Also note, I chose the first break point for Haste. Choosing the second point at 1860 is also an option. The primary point being that each additional point of Haste rating doesn't have a lot of value until you reach a break point (and you're actually casting Radiance). For a t12/heroic t12 geared character the 1860 point isn't too difficult to reach and so becomes a good starting point before focusing on Mastery. I would even recommend it for a 10 man raider at that gear level, at least to try out.

For lower geared characters or for anyone aiming for high Mastery the 773 break is a good choice. Avoiding Haste entirely is a specialty build and has significantly reduced flexibility.
Yoseketh / Videographer /Standard Deviation - Blackrock / Leveling Holy / @JoeEgo812
Posted Jul 23, 11 · Last edited Jul 23, 11
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