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Evaluating Healers for T12 readiness

20 replies
14 posts
I am the GM for my guild, and have stepped in for my Raid Organizer who is taking a small break from WoW. We are not a hardcore raiding guild, but we also want to keep within reason to the progression of the "big boys." We currently run a 10-man raid team with plans to expand to 2x10.

Semi-hardcore is always a pain, because you have to deal with both ends of the spectrum - and for all that you have to ask the more focused to relax, you also have to ask the less focused to pick up the pace a bit. It requires compromise on both sides, though in Cata, it seems like the less focused are being required to compromise a lot more than the more focused. Not saying it's bad or good - just something I need to deal with when I have my "talks" with the less focused raiders.

I found I had great success when I pinned the blame on Blizzard. ;) Actually, when I defined "benchmarks" by what the boss mechanics require, people have a much easier time coming to terms with messages such as "not yet."

T11 was somewhat easy because Blizzard gave us the chief definition: 346 average ilvl. The rest came down to the simple stuff everyone requires: proper gemming and enchanting (and if necessary reforging) and other basic requirements for upkeep. The guild also supplies a good number of these items free of charge to raiders who have demonstrated a commitment to do their fair share (ie: get the requisite reputations and gearing). That was a short conversation and we were able to quickly recover from the remnants of Wrath raiding expectations.

However, I am at a loss on T12. At *best* I was able to find 15-18K DPS for boss fights and a reference to 363 average ilvl for trash (even then, I'm iffy on that). However, due to Blizzard's fuzzy math on average ilvl (like taking into account inappropriate gear), I've been getting a lot of tells from raiders that they have the ilvl and they would like to raid even though there are challenges in other areas and they really aren'tready for Firelands. So I'd prefer to either not use ilvl or downplay it.

What I am looking for are some objective standards that I can use to help set expectations. For instance, with DPS, I can say preferred 18K DPS consistently but no less than 15K, and that does not take into account utility and fight comprehension. It's harder for healers - throughput is important, but we don't judge based on topping meters. But I do not want to go subjective for very many reasons - especially being a healer myself and a decision-maker (and GM). So if I can find some way to be able to...not judge an individual's performance but be able to tell all my potential healers what to look at afa gearing that gives them a clue they are on the right track or are capable of managing the demands of the fight mechanics from a healer's perspective. Once I can get them that, the rest (knowing their assignments, mana management, etc.) is easy. Plus, this help me get more of my guild members prepared: give a man a fish, he eats for a day; teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have some pretty tough conversations in the days ahead and can use all the ammunition I can get.
"In ancient times, hundreds of years before the dawn of history, an ancient race of people... the Druids. No one knows who they were or what they were doing..."
Posted Jul 7, 11 · OP
33 posts
Do you use sites like World of Logs or anything?

The reason I ask is because to be able to compare other guilds with a similar setup to your own, if their damage taken is less as a raid however their healing done is higher then it shows 2 things:

1. Healers need to increase their output
2. the raid as a whole need to be more careful about damage they take.

this also works on the flip side in that if the Healing done is their, damage taken is close, damage output is similar, then is it because healers aren't sticking to their assignment or is it someone isn't moving quick enough causing them to take too much damage.

The ability to compare similar guilds/raid composisition is something I use a lot, I very rarely just compare within my own guild, unless we are running 2 of the same class and spec.

Especially where ilvl comes into it I could have 2 members same spec, with ilvl's that are close however one performs at over 5k more dps wise, it is a learn to play issue that needs addressed.

Same when comparing healers, if i find that our pally is OOM all the time while our priests or shammy still have mana to spare then is it because the priest shammy are slacking and the pally is covering for them or is it that the pally isn't playing as effectively as they should be.

The trick I have found is that if I just tell them how to improve it is usually just a band aid fix and doesn't last, however if i present them with the imformation and ask them to come back to me before next raid as to how they are going to improve, I find this has a more lasting fix to their playstyle.

What I would do is get a raid together of these people who claim they are ready, with 1 or 2 of your more prominent raiders (who you know will most likely be in a raid the first time you get a kill on a new boss) and if you can another night get who you class as your best raiders and get people to compare performances. You can do it either way round, what you want is Benchmarks for your guild so you have something to let your raiders and want to be raiders have information to work with.
Posted Jul 7, 11
14 posts
Well, that's what I'm looking for - benchmarks. But I am looking for something that potential raiders can shoot towards beforehand - sort of set expectations on what a T12 ready healer should have stat-wise.

Once they're in the raid, we can talk to performance and use parses. What I'm trying to avoid is bringing in a healer who busted a gut getting "ready" and ending up getting buried because their throughput, mana pool, what-have-you isn't there yet (or, for that matter, a DPS pulling 10K when everyone else is pulling 15K at least or a tank that is super-squishy).

This is my compromise with my raiders - meet the DPS/HPS/(arcane tank requirements) (or get in reasonable range) the fights are tuned for and we'll give it a go - performance and execution will then determine continued seating. It's those boss requirements I'm trying to define.
"In ancient times, hundreds of years before the dawn of history, an ancient race of people... the Druids. No one knows who they were or what they were doing..."
Posted Jul 7, 11 · OP
262 posts
Moderators
For comparison, let me give you my stats as a priest. I'm heroic geared from T11 in 25 man raids with a 371 average item level.

5400 Intellect
3100 Spirit (3157 mana per 5)
8100 Spellpower

Now, as these encounters were tuned specifically for players coming out from normal mode tier 11, I'd say something like 359 item level should be enough from a theoretical/objective standpoint with everyone playing at the top of their game.
Posted Jul 7, 11
14 posts
That is awesome! Thank you!!!
"In ancient times, hundreds of years before the dawn of history, an ancient race of people... the Druids. No one knows who they were or what they were doing..."
Posted Jul 7, 11 · OP
5 posts
T12 Normal raiding is supposed to be tuned for T11 Normal gear. That means ilevel 359.
Posted Jul 7, 11
14 posts
Yep, I was looking for a non-ilvl set of benchmarks, only because I've had people tell me they have the ilvl, but due to how they geared, they don't have the throughput. And my group tends to get pretty creative from time to time. Honestly, with my group using ilvl alone, without qualifiers, is like herding cats through a bird sanctuary. ;)

However, seeing the stats I can convert from a 371 to a 359 and qualify the ilvl with where people's primary healing stats should be falling (with tolerance for class-specific considerations).

Thanks again!
"In ancient times, hundreds of years before the dawn of history, an ancient race of people... the Druids. No one knows who they were or what they were doing..."
Posted Jul 7, 11 · OP
60 posts
Wheareas you can abuse the average ilvl as shown in your in game character sheet, the Armory show the equipped ilvl and can't be abused. If you want some magic number about how geared your raider must be for Fireland it seems the better you can have for me. Stats can change a lot depending on your class, trinkets, etc.
One More Alt
Posted Jul 11, 11
14 posts
I don't think ilvl is a good way to measure readiness. One can have the required ilvl and still heal like a wet towel, or you can be (slightly) undergeared and heal just fine. I have healed Shannox on my alt in ilvl 353 just fine.

I would say, attitude is a better measure, since people with the right attitude also tend to put effort into reading up on their class. So gemming, reforging, speccing, etc.
They also put effort into reading up on bosses, which in my book also means, what does the fight mean for me as a healer? What would be a good time to user spell x, blow CDs, etc.

I have seen many good geared players getting outhealed by worse geared alts/players, simply because of their attitude towards raiding.
Posted Jul 11, 11
262 posts
Moderators
wrote:
I don't think ilvl is a good way to measure readiness. One can have the required ilvl and still heal like a wet towel, or you can be (slightly) undergeared and heal just fine. I have healed Shannox on my alt in ilvl 353 just fine.

I would say, attitude is a better measure, since people with the right attitude also tend to put effort into reading up on their class. So gemming, reforging, speccing, etc.
They also put effort into reading up on bosses, which in my book also means, what does the fight mean for me as a healer? What would be a good time to user spell x, blow CDs, etc.

On the flip side, I could be the most obedient healer in the world. I could follow instructions to the letter. I can stand out of every fire, void zone and bad object in the game. I can nail every cooldown, have minimal overhealing and do all the right things with a 340 item level and still whiff.

You need to have both.

Your item level represents the potential top end of numbers that your character can do. You might be able to get away with having a little less stats if the rest of your group has a slightly higher one to offset it. But in my eyes, there's always going to be a minimal amount of basic stats that is going to be needed.
Posted Jul 12, 11
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